מה מכוון הינוקא בניגוניו •השיחה המלאה בין הגאון הינוקא לכתב קול פליי בקבלת קהל

3:11 and not intend it in order to show off; that when he sings he should not intend it so that people hear him and say 'what a beautiful voice', and, Heaven forbid, to find favor in the eyes of women, or things like that - that is not fitting. A true singer must intend in his singing that it be pleasant before Hashem - 'for Hashem has heard the voice of my weeping.' You know, Rabbi Chaim Mordechai of Nadvorna would always say: 'Hashem, blessed be He, loves to hear my voice.'

3:40 That's how he would say it: He loves to hear my voice. He had a voice beloved before Hashem. The tzaddikim have a pure voice. So there was once a story with the holy Baal Shem Tov, that there was this one heretic and apikores, that however much the greatest sages of that generation spoke with him to bring him back in teshuvah, they did not succeed. Once the holy Baal Shem Tov went out; so one of his students - this was perhaps Rabbi Yaakov, Rabbi Yaakov of Mezhibuzh, who was there in Mezhibuzh, of the Baal Shem Tov - so he tried to speak with this heretic, and did not succeed.

4:12 So just as the Baal Shem Tov was going out, he made - like this - he made a cough. This heretic apikores heard the cough, he heard only the voice of the Baal Shem Tov, his cough, he had a thought of teshuvah, and decided to [unclear]. And you see that sometimes the voice of tzaddikim, when the voice is holy - even a cough, which is not music and not song, can bring a person back to teshuvah.

4:37 The purer and cleaner a person is, he can shine a light from one end of the world to the other. - If it's all right, two last questions. Rabbi, there are some niggunim that the Rabbi himself plays and people hear. On what occasions did these niggunim come out? In the course of these niggunim. - Oh, nice, you asked a question - a very nice question. I didn't think anyone would ever ask me such a question, but all right. The truth is, my music is - I don't ask Hashem now that niggunim should come out for me, or 'give me niggunim'.

5:10 I am more - I go into hisbodedus like this, or it comes at certain moments. I have some niggun now that I just composed and played; and also the niggunim that I compose, I play both the guitar and the... Now in this niggun that you will hear, both the guitar and the violins and the instruments that I put in there, they came at a time like that, that they also had some feeling. Do you understand? I sort of think about every detail, where it will come in, and it is according to my own thinking. I don't know how it sounds in the eyes of the world, but it is in my own eyes, yes? It may be that I am not much of a player and musician; this is just what Hashem simply gives me to do on my own.

5:57 It may be that it's good, and it may be that - I don't really know what the world will say about it, but I play because it brings me closer to Hashem like this. And there are some who have told me that it strengthens them, so I do it. But it comes from different times. From times, from all kinds of - for example, there is the niggun 'Yesh Tikvah', There Is Hope. That is a niggun that came exactly on a Tuesday.

6:22 It was the day after a kabbalas kahal, a public reception - it was on that day, that night before. There were very unfortunate people, and illnesses and troubles, and I heard so many hard things that simply after the Shacharis prayer - it was a very long reception, it already went on until sunrise, and after sunrise, after the prayer, simply, when I came back, after that I sat down at the piano. With the piano I feel that I have a conversation with it; when I play I have a very great connection to it.

6:50 I can also say that I do not recommend that people learn to play music, because it is bittul Torah, time taken from Torah, and it takes a lot of time; and also in the end, who will use it? Also in the end a person [unclear] - I said, [unclear], there is the player, [unclear] and songs, and it's for nothing; it is better that a person listen and enjoy instead of wasting the time - it is tiring and it's for nothing. If I didn't have people telling me that it strengthens them in fear of Heaven, I wouldn't look at it; it's not interesting.

7:18 It has to be - in everything there has to be a purpose. So I recommend making use of the time. So when I came back and sat down at the piano, simply I played like this, I closed my eyes, and this niggun was the first that simply - that's how it is with me: I simply play and suddenly the niggun comes out, as if it came out like that. And then the niggun 'Yesh Tikvah' was created for me.

7:45 And that's how the niggun came out, simply; that's how I played it to Hashem. When I play, I play simply only for Hashem. I think that I play for Hashem, blessed be He, that He should hear it, and that's it - that is my intention, for Hashem; and it comes only from the depth of the heart: both the composing and the niggun and the instruments that I put in in the course of the sounds, I try like this that they be very, very special and bring closeness to Hashem.

8:15 That's it. - This is my last question - the Rabbi spoke about it. A bochur who listens to songs, to be strengthened by them too - can that be bittul Torah, or is it part of his service of Hashem? - Look, bittul Torah - its law is 'bittul', stopping: it means that a person stops, stops from Torah for the sake of something. Now, today it is not common that a person would stop Torah in order to listen to music; he simply listens to music at times that are free.

8:47 Do you understand? That is most of the world. Today a person travels on the roads, he puts on music. A person doesn't come into the house and do something, stop it and go listen. Therefore music always adds; one never loses from the music one hears - it awakens the heart. If a person, baruch Hashem, learns and prays - there are also people who learn and in the background they put on a few niggunim so that it gives them more sharpness and a settled mind; there are people who are wounded in spirit and it strengthens their soul; there are people whom it encourages.

9:19 Music is an enormous power, but each one, you know, does according to his strength; but in any case, with a niggun, it is never bittul Torah at all. So that's it - so you will need to receive a blessing. May the Holy One, blessed be He, [unclear] you, that you should have great success and help from Heaven, and that the Name of Heaven should become beloved through you, and that your [unclear] should spread outward in all that you do for music, for niggunim. That's very nice, but I don't know if you - if they told you or not - I am not a singer.

9:48 - Certainly, but the Rabbi composes. - Yes, I compose, yes, and I play. I play - I play with my hands; Hashem simply did not give me a singer's voice. - Is what the Rabbi plays in the shiurim like the 'milsa d'bedichusa', the light word, of the time of the Gemara? Yes - I am asking: it's like how they would open with a milsa d'bedichusa, to open the hearts of the listeners; so the Rabbi plays at the end so that the words will enter the heart? Is that the idea? - Nice. Listen, you know, the Pnei Yehoshua on Tractate Shabbos, page 30 - the Pnei Yehoshua says that the intention in the milsa d'bedichusa, too, is that it was also words of aggadah, to draw the heart.

10:19 So maybe it is as you explain, like the Pnei Yehoshua. So maybe one can explain it like you, yes? You know - to draw the heart, and a niggun; and that is the whole purpose of a niggun, of singing. It is very important that it come for its own sake, for its own sake, for the honor of Hashem. In everything the world does today, everyone is always trying to impress people. Now a person - look at the whole world today: athletes, players - the whole world, the whole world is a kind of show, because everyone is trying to find favor in the eyes of this one, of that one, of that one, to impress this one, to impress that one.

11:00 So I say: music is the purest thing there is, because it is the only voice that was not damaged. Now, if one tries to take this pure voice and damage it too, then certainly that is of no use. Music must be to impress the One Who sits in Heaven. It is written: 'And He saw their distress when He heard their song.' The Holy One, blessed be He, only hears our song; He sees our troubles by Himself; we don't need to tell Him what distresses us. If we, the Jewish people, all sang today songs to Hashem, and praised Him, and played the Tehillim before Him, and sang, and praised His Name - who knows how many troubles would be cancelled for us, and how many decrees, because we would simply be singing.

11:41 Here is King David - what did he hold? A harp in his hand. He took up a niggun, but he sang to Hashem - Tehillim came out. If the world does not sing and direct it toward Heaven, then what is left for us already? May we truly merit only to sing to Hashem, blessed be He. May you have great success and help from Heaven, and may your [unclear] spread outward.