Eyes That Saw Angels - Rabbi and Dayan, Mari Avigdor Dar, in a Fascinating Conversation with the ...

2:46 But I am working on other sefarim; I can't also work on — and be scattered. As it is I am scattered and I don't finish anything. Yes, I am sitting on four sefarim right now. I am glad when I finish one subject, and another, and another — it does not end. But that is how I have... — This is that same interesting sefer. Perhaps the Rav knows the... of — which page?

3:11 Rabbi Avraham Arusi? — Yes, Rabbi Avraham Arusi. — Rabbi Avraham... something small here, in manuscript? The Rav should see — some hundred sefarim, a hundred sefarim. He was a tremendous gaon. But with the sefarim — what I wanted to grasp — a sefer is three pages, two pages. Either he wrote like that and stopped, or... apart from the derushim on the Torah, which is the longest. — Yes, the longest; but he also has all kinds of booklets, small sefarim that he put out. — Yes, yes, that I know. — All kinds of wonders, with ruach hakodesh. — He also has poems about the period, about what was then, in his time.

3:42 Right. He was a prolific writer. He was a world-class gaon, Rabbi Avraham Arusi, of the rabbis of Tel Aviv. — Yes, he was of the rabbis — of the rabbis. How did I forget what that village he came from was called? And afterwards he came up to the Land, and here in the Land he was truly prolific. Yes. And I think that in the Land he had the time for it. He also composed an "Esh tukad bekirbi" — "A fire burns within me when I bring to mind..." — Right, an "Esh tukad" like that: what they did there, and what they do here in the Land.

4:11 The Rav should see what he writes here, in his own handwriting. There is a new wonder, which he records as something that will come to be — it is a great wonder. There were two brothers, one in Yemen and one in the Land of Israel — so he writes it — and each of them has a small box in his bosom, a small box; when the other wants to speak to him, it rings like a bell inside his bosom, and he knows that his friend is calling him, and he opens it, and sees him before him, and greets him, and he answers him, and he speaks with him face to face, "as a man speaks to his fellow," from one end of the earth to the other. How can this be — from a hundred years ago, in manuscript?

4:45 But to come to see such a thing — didn't the holy Or HaChaim show the king the mirror, and he killed him by way of the mirror? — But here you... I know that story, where he tells him, "Look in the mirror and you will see." But here you see it set down, in writing — this is looking inside a sefer. Is the story we heard true? Yes. I heard that Mori Shmuel wrote things far more frightening. Really? Yes. And he passed away in 5736.

5:11 These sages of Yemen — awesome holiness. That was also said by the Rav — the Rav of Komemiyut. Rabbi Mendelson. — Right, Rabbi Mendelson. He said — his son, the one who is living, said that his father told him that he had heard — there were people from Ashkenaz who had been in Yemen and came back, and they told that there are people there who speak with the ministering angels. Just so.

5:36 The truth is, I... I... There is a basis for it. After all, they were free of everything. Right. They had no other interest — only their service; they had nothing else. Even the work they did was the service of Hashem. After all, my mother told me that Rabbi Alsheikh worked at weaving — they would weave with their feet — and all day long they would say Keser Malchus. Without a sefer, without anything. They sit and do their work — he and Mori Yosef Shemen and one other person — and they would sit, and she would hear them.

6:10 They would say Keser Malchus every day, every day. And you understand: in their simplicity it was only learning; they had nothing else. And the food too — they produced for themselves the food they needed. There was no mass slaughter or things like that, as there are today — it was not an industry. And each one had his Mori — his own Mori. He went and bought a chicken; if the Mori was not there, he did not slaughter.

6:36 And that Mori slaughtered for free, and almost every house, every three houses, had a shochet. So two neighbors would sit down together: this one bought a sheep, that one bought a sheep; on the first day — on the first day of Yom Tov they slaughtered Reuven's, and on the second day of Yom Tov they slaughtered Shimon's. There were no butcher shops — and even the butcher shops, after all, had no refrigerators. They would slaughter, and first all the wealthy come and buy meat; then they see some child passing by, the son of some poor family; he says to him, "Come, come, go take this to your mother. Tell her we will settle it later."

7:10 If he doesn't take it, it will go bad. So half of the cow would go to tzedakah. So that was life in Yemen. Abroad, in all the other places, it was not like that. It was a business, as you see today. And I have said: there is no mehadrin kashrus today. There isn't. Forget about it. There is kosher, but there is no mehadrin. Whoever goes and tells you "mehadrin" is a liar.

7:35 It cannot be mehadrin. We too wanted to open — the head of the council wanted to open a slaughterhouse by us. I said to him, "You are relying on me? I can do five hundred chickens a day." I said to him, "What five hundred?" — he wants to do some five thousand chickens. He wants... no, no, I don't have the strength for it. Not me. Rabbi Machpud has been working with Rabbi Landau for forty years now. He has the shoulders for it; I don't have the shoulders.

8:00 I know: five hundred I can keep control of. More than five hundred, I can't. In the end he dropped it. Because it is impossible; you need... by nature it is impossible. — It has already become a business. Everything today is a business. The yeshivos are a business. Today, bringing people back in teshuvah — it's factories. Know this: if there is anyone who truly speaks the way one should — you know, there is only one in the world: you. There is no one else today.

8:25 Today you... there are two reasons. Everything today is business. And they persecute you, and they have persecuted you. I tell you, our generation is the generation of Mashiach: "the wisdom of the scribes will decay, and those who fear sin will be despised" — and we see it. They go after you because you are a ben Torah and they are not. And they too — when they do everything that they do, they want money. That is why, when they once said, on the strength of a rumor, that you said "I want money," they said, "There, you see!" And they are not looking for money? Then what are they looking for — Moshe Rabbeinu?

8:58 They are looking for money. We know them. But they are not straight about it; their word is not in its place. They brought the techniques of the street and brought them into the beis midrash. What will be done to them? Nothing will be done to them. Even if you open a yeshivah today, with students, they will persecute you. But if you manage to bring forty percent of the students out whole, you are the gadol hador. But that is in the yeshivah world.

9:23 But in the world of the street — the street is the street. Nu, what can one do? There are many people who — they came back in teshuvah; they came from charedi homes, and they went off and were sinners, and now they saw that there is money in it, so they came back. And those... Look, nu — where is Rabbi Yoram Abergel now? Nu, they brought him down to the grave. And Rabbi Yaakov Yosef — isn't it so? We don't know why they departed. They simply persecuted them and went after them by way of the tools of the law, and they departed. Nu, what.

9:54 We know this. I'll tell you: "All my days I grew up among the Sages." From childhood, I still remember the batei din of the old days: Rabbi Ovadia Hedaya, that of the Rishon LeZion, Rabbi Yitzchak Nissim — yes. I would see them walking like this — they walk like this. Rabbi Ovadia Hedaya would run — that is how I remember him. He would come up with pages every morning. His son-in-law was the one who printed the sefarim — the Itach press.

10:20 Yes, the Itach press — that is his. — His son-in-law, his daughter's husband. Yes. Every day he would bring him a few responsa, and he would type them for him — Even HaEzer, and so on, this question and that. When it had grown into a sefer, he would arrange it by the order of the Shulchan Aruch. And that is how he brought out sefarim. And he would walk by on foot, with no cars and no entourage — Rabbi Yitzchak Nissim too. Rabbi Yitzchak Nissim would pass through the market — he did have two kavasses who walked ahead of him — but no — everyone...

10:45 And he was a holy chassid; he was a disciple of the Ben Ish Chai. He was a holy chassid. I also remember Chacham Ezra Attiya. Afterwards came the changing of the guard. My father worked in the batei din. — The eyes that saw those eyes — I am looking at your eyes. — So I am telling you, afterwards came the change. I came in — my father worked in the beis din. Then, at fifteen or sixteen, I entered the beis din to write gittin. And already the rabbis of old were no more; most were of a different kind. — How long was the Rav a dayan?

11:12 I don't know — I was thirty years in the batei din. — A court scribe? I was a scribe of gittin; I was not a court scribe. Afterwards I received dayanus. But I went to Rabbi Kaduri's place, and I left there, for many reasons. The simple reason: one man sues another — he opens a case for two hundred shekels and sues him over three hundred shekels. He owes it. He admits it; he told him, "I don't have it now. When I have it, I will bring it to you." Obviously — it has already been a long time. And I stand there like this: what, am I supposed to judge?

11:46 Whom am I going to judge? I understood that it was pointless. After that I had one din Torah, and then I left. But the one who brought me in there was Rabbi Abergel. And he said to me, "Are you willing to sit on this case in my place? I have to leave for America — I need to, for my son." I told him, "All right." I didn't know. It was a real case. It was a case of hekdesh endowments. There was a lawyer — a real ace. That was my luck — Rabbi Moshe.

12:11 He would keep turning back to the Rav and correcting him: "That is a lien — leave that. Speak about this and this." That's it. "And that — leave it; that is nonsense." And he did not understand where all these things were coming from. When we finished — it took me seven months. When we finished, he said, "Good — I need to go on vacation; it is bein hazmanim." And he said to me, "What is this? You need to finish it for me." I told him, "It is bein hazmanim now." He said... "I need to take my children."

12:35 "I wanted you to write the ruling." And I had no... they gave me no rest; they did this day after day. In the end I went up north, stayed in a hotel for three days, copied everything out, wrote it point after point, and I came on Friday and brought it to my father. He went over all of it and said to me, "Very good. That's it — nothing needs to be changed." I handed it in on Sunday; I came for the case, and I hear them coming, getting closer.

13:01 I said to someone there, "Take me in to the Rav; I want to speak with the Rav — take me in to Rabbi Kaduri." I sit down; we sat, we talked. But I talked with him properly; I was curious what the Ben Ish Chai looked like, and how it happened. Rabbeinu Yosef Chaim... Rabbeinu Yosef Chaim, for our sins, went to the tomb of Yechezkel. There he passed away... Yechezkel — they say he was a spark of his. There, in that place, there was no water, and he died of thirst.

13:31 Those who had come with him went back, and he stayed to do kavanos and yichudim; water — there was none — and he died of thirst. Really? Yes. I had not known that. I went among the Iraqis in Ramat Gan, and they would say, "atash, atash" — he died of thirst. So one evening, on a Thursday night, there was the kollel of Rabbi Tzadka — of Rabbi Tzadka — downstairs, "Maskil LeDavid" — it was some kollel, "Maskil LeDavid."

14:01 And we would go to learn there, and toward morning, when the Rav went to pray at sunrise, we would escort him to his home. After all the bachurim had dispersed, I ask him, "Was that so?" And he says to me, "Who told you?" I said to him, "They told me — in Ramat Gan." He said to me, "It is true. But don't tell." Now, I wanted to know, in those days, what he looked like. So Rabbi Kaduri said to me, "You see the picture of Rabbi Petaya?

14:25 That is how he was." That hat of India — the Indian one — he did not have. It was that round black one. And that is how he looked. And yes, he was young then. And how he would walk... he would go about... And the Rav testified to me; he told me, "He would ride on the donkey, and the learning never left his mouth, even when he was on the donkey." His day and his night were holy. Afterwards, for our sins, when he passed away, all kinds of notables came in and took manuscripts of his as a keepsake. That is how the sefer Mekabtziel was scattered.

14:59 They went into the Rav's room and took. And there was a period when he did not leave the house — six months — because his brothers had committed some embezzlement. About this — in Lashon Chachamim he composed a prayer and... he writes that he prayed alone. Six — six years he did not go out; he prayed alone. He writes, "I prayed alone." He did not go out. And in his derashos, too, which we have, he writes, "Hashem help me — this derashah I did not deliver, and may Hashem help me to deliver it." He was shut in; he did not go out for anything. Afterwards, distinguished people saw what was happening with the derashos, and he wanted to bring out Ben Ish Chai, and he had no money for it. He had been a businessman,

15:39 but because of his brothers' embezzlement they took everything — they confiscated all their property — and he came out poor; he came out of prison with nothing. And his mother was still alive, and she passed away, and then he grieved; he mourned over it in prison — he was changed. And afterwards, for six years, he sits at home. And he wanted to print Ben Ish Chai and did not have the means, so he sent to Rabbanit Sassoon, asking her to give him a loan, and she did not do it.

16:05 And then — he had a Torah scroll — he sold it, and with that he printed it: Ben Ish Chai, on the Chumash. Which Rabbanit was that? Pardon? Which Rabbanit was that? No — Rabbanit Sassoon. No, of course not. Who? This sefer — a woman had it printed? Which Rabbanit Sassoon? The wife — the mother of Chacham Suleiman — of David Sassoon. — Ah. — The wife of David Sassoon.

16:30 Rabbanit Sassoon — the one with whom Rabbi Yitzchak Nissim used to correspond in responsa — the Rabbanit. So she did not answer him about it. And he wrote it and printed the Ben Ish Chai. Rabbi Ben-Zion Chazan printed these writings, but he did not get to all that there had been. That was missing for him. That is the whole matter and everything that happened. But I still saw the rabbinate, in its time, in its wondrous greatness.

16:55 Who would have believed that the rabbinate would collapse? But that is how it began to go bad. It was the rabbinate — because of one certain well-known rabbi. He made a rabbinate within the rabbinate, and he figured that in a panel of three dayanim he would put in one rooster, so there are two against him, and so that's it — they would come out ahead. In the end they put in two roosters. Today — today you can't believe anything. You have no rabbinate. You have no... it was destroyed. The rabbinate was destroyed from within.

17:19 Today the appointments are already made in other ways; even the chief rabbis come bringing certificates. That is how it looks. So what — you are surprised? Yes, they will persecute you. I tell you, they won't... you — it is jealousy. They persecuted the Rav — what is his name — Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz; they persecuted Rabbi Yoram Abergel; they gave them no rest. Only, they kept silent. The great wisdom is not to answer them.

17:47 Because what do they want? They want an answer. Don't answer them. As much as you have not answered them — you see, it works. It works. There were some people who went in to rabbis and told them to their face, "Take it back, or I will make a mess for you." There were rabbis who were afraid, and they took it back. And there were rabbis who said, "Persecute me. So what? Persecute me." And Rabbi Steinsaltz — didn't they do that to him? They persecuted him; Rabbi Shach went after him.

18:12 And they went to the Badatz, and the Badatz set up a committee and brought in Rabbi Horowitz, and he said that he is fine, he is a tzaddik. And Rabbi Shach became angry. And what did they do? They put up wall posters, they did all sorts of things. But they said, "Rabbi Shach said not to do this, and not that," and... But — the jealousy. That is our generation. "The wisdom of the scribes will decay!" How — how does it go? As for me, my whole fear, when I want to do something, is: what will they say?

18:41 What will they do to me... So sit down low; they will get there on their own. Yes, and look at our charedi literature: one steals from the other. Today I was sitting — someone asked me, one of the friends, Neri Jarafi, about a heat pump, and I began to learn "the sun and the derivatives of the sun," and I got to sefarim where I lost track — this one stole from that one, or that one stole from this one; who stole from whom? So I went back to the source, the first one: Meorei Esh, by Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach.

19:15 Now they have made a new edition of it; they also brought out some "Karnei Or," "Karnei Shor," what do I know — a commentary on Rav Auerbach. Maybe don't change it — leave it somehow; that small explanation is very nice. No — there are additions, too. And I am already reading — I read another sefer: this one took from him, that one took from him, until you no longer see the person. Yes, well, it is like what Rabbi Yosef Mashash said when he met Rabbi Raphael Ankawa.

19:45 When he came back, he said to him, "I have seen how people talk — 'his honor in Torah' — fine; everyone exaggerates, all sorts of things." So he told him a mashal there, when he returned home to Meknes — the mashal of the magnifying glass. If you look at an ant through it, you see a towering lion, like Og, king of Bashan — but really it is only its natural size.

20:10 "Everything they said about you — until I came and saw it truly: they did not tell the half." And then he made the blessing over him; he says, "Blessed is He who... — the first time I see a man who is truly great." But how many such are there? And he himself — in Meknes they persecuted him. — Who persecuted him? Those who thought they were kabbalists. And there was no one to teach Kabbalah, and the generation at that time was going down and down. So he says: take hold of the simple people — "Come, go by the plain meaning; come, sit in the shiurim" — and they persecuted him.

20:40 And the persecutors were families of rabbis. And he writes there: people talk in the middle of the chazzan's repetition, and they would talk about kavanos. What kavanos? Who is having kavanos? At least demand that much of them. So he instituted one prayer, and they fought him. But that is how it is. These people — when will they say of you that you are a tzaddik? After a hundred and twenty. But now they will not concede it to you. "Acharei Mos, Kedoshim, Emor" — after death, say "holy." — Yes, there is a responsum of the rabbis of Morocco.

21:07 He writes there, "What is this that we say, 'Acharei Mos, Kedoshim, Emor'? But my practice is to say it differently: 'Acharei Mos, Kedoshim, Emor.'" There is that, too. So — do what you understand to be right; don't be afraid of anyone. When they see that you don't answer them, they will end up leaving you alone. What does he want? It is the truth. What? What is there to do?

21:32 That is the only remedy. And I tell you: be strong and of good courage. There is no one — nobody. Pay them no mind. Without even counting them. Without paying them any mind. And these things — look, "He does the will of those who fear Him"; there is nothing to be done. The Holy One, blessed be He, helps the tzaddikim; there is no problem. But one has to know. In life, a person... you are helping. No — don't back down. Stay just as you are.

21:56 I knew all these things; I knew who was going up and who was going down. Once I spoke up, and I let fly — I made no calculations — and I got that kind of name. Many rabbis said, "He has nothing to lose." And I am glad that I have nothing to lose. From them I don't want to gain anything. I have nothing to lose. Yes, that is the world, and this is the mark of the time of Mashiach, and there is nothing to be done.

22:23 Won't the Rav tell us about the Baba Sali — the Rav was by him for eighteen years? — Yes, and with Rabbi Mordechai Sharabi too I had the connection. Mordechai Sharabi. His son-in-law, David Yehudayoff, was a student of my uncle. I had an uncle, a great man — I don't know, not only in Torah; he was also an engineer.

22:48 They called him "the engineer." And at the time of the aliyah, in the transit camp, he saw Rabbi Yehudayoff — a little boy; he was an orphan. So he took him and really poured learning into him, and growing esrogim, and all kinds of things, and made something of him — he built him. And he married — he met the daughter of the Baba Sali — and he became one of our family.

23:12 He would always come and hear my mother and my grandmother speaking Yemenite, and he understood — you could see that he understood. So after my father passed away, he was like a guardian to me. He would come in to visit us; we were three children left orphaned. So he came one Shabbos; my mother said to him — she complained a little — the children were running wild on her: no Shabbos, no nothing, we were fighting. What children we were — I was seven.

23:46 So my mother... and he said to me, "Do you want to go to the Rav?" "You want to?" — "Yes." So at that time the Baba Sali lived on Sorotzkin Street; he bought an apartment after the Six-Day War; he lived there for a year or two. — Where, in Jerusalem? In Jerusalem. — ... in Jerusalem. — Yes, he came up to Jerusalem; he lived on Sorotzkin. He had a few apartments there; he had an apartment in Baka, by the synagogue across the way — theirs to this day — his own. And the apartment he bought after the Six-Day War, on Sorotzkin.

24:15 And we went on foot from the Katamonim to Sorotzkin. Right — an hour and something. I came in; he is sitting on one of those beds from the Jewish Agency. I saw him — all white. And beside him, like this, a box of snuff. Snuff — and without a break. And the... there was snuff like this; he would take it like this, with no reckoning.

24:42 Yes — for example, we came in; for example, he would be sitting with some two young men, avreichim, standing there and debating beside him, something or other. I remember one thing, truly. For example, he turned to someone — afterwards he said, "You know, when you open a Shulchan Aruch, you need to wash your hands."

25:07 And I — from the age of six or seven — I remember those words to this day. "You want to learn Shulchan Aruch? It is a weighty thing." That was — that was the Baba Sali. Now, I was fine — I would come to him every month, and I was there. He said to that avreich, "You need to wash your hands when you open a Shulchan Aruch." Perhaps he meant any sefer, no? — No, no. He brought the words of Maran; he wanted to understand. He was speaking about Maran, apparently, with explanations — something else — and it made an impression on me; it was not something ordinary.

25:41 I remember it to this day. Then he went to pray — he went to Minchah and Arvis — Minchah, if I am not mistaken. And afterwards he came back — Minchah and Arvis, and then he came back. No — we prayed Minchah and came back. And afterwards we prayed Arvis, right nearby — a simple little place like this — and when we came back, he came back with us; he came along with us. So he says to him — Rabbi David, Yehudayoff — "Tell the Rav to bless me — my mother is ill."

26:09 So he says to him, "Oh, oh..." "My son — my dear son — am I a doctor? One who is ill needs a doctor." He says to him, "This needs a Mi Shebeirach." "It does not need a Mi Shebeirach." "It does need a Mi Shebeirach." So — that is to say, I myself did not see his miracles and wonders. The way you see him — that is how Rabbi Sharabi was, too.

26:35 He was a man who looks straight at you, speaks, and does not speak Kabbalah. Everything was the plain meaning. Yeshua Salem, once — he came from his home to the neighborhood, because his father-in-law and mother-in-law lived near Rabbi Sharabi, in Nachalat Tzion. Rabbi Yehoshua Salem? Yeshua Salem, who put out that sefer — when he was a bachur, a bachur, not an avreich; he was young.

27:02 He came, sat in the synagogue, waiting for the prayer. In the morning Rabbi Sharabi says to him, "What are you reading?" He told him, "The Beis Yosef." "Come, come here." It is the first time I see him sit down — he explains to him, and the other reads — and he is sitting without a sefer. Rabbi Sharabi — just like that, without a sefer. And he explains to him — explains like a teacher in school. Not all sorts of things — plainly.

27:29 Now, Chacham Meir too, one of the kabbalists who were by him, by the Rav — I once spoke with him; I said to him, "The Rav used to teach Kabbalah?" He says, "He taught Kabbalah like Gemara." With the rabbis — every single thing, plain. But in their circle — nine rabbis, kabbalists: Chacham Rachamim; sometimes there was Rabbi Avraham Fatal, and Yitzchak Yedid — all those kabbalists; and Tzion Bracha; the last one was Uri Nuri.

27:56 He passed away just recently — a year ago. And those were the ones; nobody else could come in — the door was closed. Minchah time comes, the door opens, everyone comes in, children too — some fifty children; we would sit behind the partition, and all the adults on the row of benches. And he would pray according to the siddur of the Rashash — without the siddur — with the small siddur of Saleh Mansour, and the kavanos by heart. What — he prayed from a Yemenite siddur?

28:21 No — he was a Sharabi — he prayed from Saleh Mansour's siddur, the nusach of the Sephardim. He came up to the Land young, and he learned at Porat Yosef. And there Rabbi Tzadka came to know him. And afterwards he became known as a kabbalist — not that people saw it — but he prayed with kavanos. He would hold a siddur, and that is how he prayed and had his kavanos. He never once held the siddur of the Rashash in front of us.

28:47 But he knew it. When he came in — one time he came in, and Rabbi Tzion Bracha and one other person there asked him some question, and — I don't know what — he tried to explain. The Rav would not let it pass; he said to him, "Not like that — like this. No." Kabbalah — he said to him, "Yes? That is what you think?" So he corrected himself, and he said to him, "Now you have become wise." He would not react. He also said that the only one who understood his shiur was the Rebbe of Belz.

29:16 He was twenty-seven, twenty-eight at the time; he was young. And he said that he was the only one who understood Kabbalah the way one should. Because there were young ones too; there was another young one, Rabbi Eliyahu Attiya, the son of Rabbi Mordechai, the author of Artzos HaChaim. But he was... — Rabbi Yissachar Dov, the son of... The Rebbe — the son. The son of Rabbi Mordechai. That one — the Admor who is living now. — He is the son of Rabbi Mordechai. — Yes. — The nephew of Rabbi Aharon of Belz. — Right, he is his uncle; Rabbi Aharon is his uncle. — Yes, Rabbi Aharon is his uncle. — Yes. And he would come to the shiur; he would always come with some shamash, who waited for him outside; he sits there. He said that of all those who learn, he is the one who understands the most.

29:53 And he himself would go to the market alone — Rabbi Sharabi — with no shamash and no nothing. And if someone walked behind him, he would turn around and say to him, "What do you want? Do I owe you something? What do you want, walking after me?" And he was strict about order — but everything just so. White — white silk — and the peyos neatly arranged.

30:17 He did not go about unkempt; not a thing was out of place. Properly dressed. And also... — And weren't there sunglasses too, nice ones like that? No, that was when he once went out... At the Kosel too... when he went. So that was after the Six-Day War, still before they brought down the wall opposite the Kosel. Yes. And there — he sat there, and then, I don't know, someone photographed him; he photographed him from behind.

30:42 He did not agree to be photographed. So he photographed him from behind — on the sly, like that. And later, when he was ill, then we would already photograph him. But while he had his strength — no, by no means. That picture at the grave of the Rashash, too — that photograph is from a distance. They photographed him as he was approaching, and he did not even know. But he also had illnesses; he was a diabetic, and he had blood pressure — he was, poor man, he was... — Was he connected with Miriam the Laundress?

31:10 No, no. You have heard of Miriam the Laundress? With Rabbi Shlomo of Zvhil, who used to send people to her. Yes, but that is... I said that there was a connection between Miriam the Laundress and the Rabbanit. To the Rabbanit, right. They were poor. — And to Rabbi Chaim Sinwani? Mori Chaim Sinwani — he learned by him. He — Mori Chaim Sinwani — sat on the floor when he would receive Torah from him. I know with certainty that he was, as it were, a trodden threshold before him.

31:38 Yes, Mori Chaim Sinwani — his way was something else altogether. His way — for example, he would not go to... He would call the seven days of mourning "the seven days of the hilula." And he would sit, dressed up, as on a festival... we never saw anything like it.

32:03 Poor man — after the Rabbanit passed away, he went downhill. But he was... all of Machaneh Yehudah was his. All the sellers and the merchants — "What does the Rav say?" Whose? — Sharabi's. — Sharabi's. — Sharabi's. He was the Rav. Even though there was a rabbi of the city center, Rabbi Dov — I don't know — still, they were all his people. All of Machaneh Yehudah — his people. And you would see people of stature, chassidim — and us too, as children.

32:30 After the prayer he would hand out to each one half — half a lira. And we go to buy falafel. Anyone who saw us in town said, "Those are Rabbi Sharabi's." That is how everyone saw us. And there came to him the father of Rabbi Yagen — Rabbi Nissim Yagen; he and his brothers were all Rabbi Sharabi's people; he raised them. And once his father, Chacham Yaakov, came to him and told him that someone wanted to trade shops with him — some shop... he had one — they had built it — closed up, closed up a window, and outside the window there was an opening; that is how they sold.

33:08 That is how it was: you open the shutter — that was Yaakov's shop; he would take out a folding chair and sell soaps, shampoo and all kinds of things — toothpaste, toothbrushes, all sorts. And he comes and says to him, "A man wants to trade with me — a big shop on Agrippas, a shop. Should I trade with him or not?" He said to him, "One more day — let me check."

33:34 Now, this is not ruach hakodesh, not Kabbalah — no. Now, I didn't know; this is what happened. The next day, in the morning, Rabbi Sharabi came. He is there selling, and suddenly he sees Rabbi Sharabi standing there. He says to him, "Keep selling." "Your honor!" he says to him... "Keep selling just as you have done until now." He stands like that, watching.

34:00 He stayed some quarter of an hour, a few minutes, and left. The afternoon — this I saw myself. In the afternoon Rabbi Yaakov comes and says to Rabbi Sharabi, "What does his honor say?" He said to him, "Look — you saw that I stood there by you? I saw everyone coming, buying — baruch Hashem, all is good. I went over there, I stood at the shop there — nobody passes by. No, no — don't trade." He gives him the explanation — simple, down to earth. — He went, as it were, to actually check it. — Yes, of course; he looks at things. "I was here, I was by you, I saw it is good; over there, no — nobody." And that — I was there. But I used to go to the Rabbanit every time; I would sit there.

34:38 Whatever the Rabbanit wanted — "Go, bring this" — I would. She was a woman — what a woman! The whole house was alive. Whether it was ahead of the festivals — whether it was clothes, shoes, matzos, wine. — That was still in the sixties? No — matzos, wine; and she would walk through the market, go into the shops, they give to her, and we go to the house, put it down and come back, put it down and come back — shirts, socks, all kinds of clothes, and trousers.

35:05 People come and say, "Number eighteen — families." The Rav's whole garden was full; and when the truck of matzos came — you couldn't get through — we would go up and down, up with a package and down with a package. All the children. Also with the charity fund. Now, all the children were there, so we had a connection. I, one time — Rabbi Ben-Zion Abba Shaul would always come to her.

35:31 She had so many questions, and she gave a derashah on Wednesdays in the synagogue, and people would come, and she made matches, and she was busy with everything. So one time I came, and I see — Rabbi Ben-Zion was there. She had her own room — you go in to the left, her room — there she had a big library. The Rav didn't; the Rav had two or three hundred like this. Old sefarim — we never even opened them — behind glass; they set it up like this at the entrance, over at the side...

36:03 And she had a library. Rabbi Ben-Zion would come, listen to the questions, answer her and so on, and afterwards go in to Rabbi Sharabi, to the inner room, and sit there; they would make them tea, and he would talk with him. One day I see Rabbi Ben-Zion from a distance — so happy — up to the heart of the heavens. He hears something, and how happy he is! Now, sitting beside them is Chacham Meir, and I didn't know what all the...

36:28 what the joy was about — I didn't know. After some two or three weeks — Chacham Meir used to learn in our kollel, every day... so I say to him — Chacham Meir Levi; he was one of the kabbalists of Rabbi Sharabi. He also used to go there regularly, to the yeshivah, Nahar Shalom. So I said to him, "So what was that joy that came over Rabbi Ben-Zion?" He says to me, "Listen — whatever Rabbi Ben-Zion says — some sugya in the Gemara or something — Rabbi Sharabi tells him how it is written in the Kabbalah."

36:57 And he would delight in it. Every sugya that he put forward — for him it was a joy up to the heart of the heavens. And that, without a sefer. I never once saw Rabbi Sharabi open a Gemara or a Shulchan Aruch, nor even a sefer of Kabbalah. He knew the whole Torah — but the whole Torah. Just like that. He would also sit like this with the kabbalists, correcting people in Etz Chaim as well. He clears it up: "You skipped a line." And then he sits back — goes back to dozing.

37:23 Sometimes he hears arguments — goes back to dozing. No, no — there was no Torah that he did not know. That — that we saw. And when they asked him halachos too, he would answer simply. So those who tell of miracles and wonders — those are people who don't live in Jerusalem; they are on the outside. And we, on the inside, saw a holy man.

37:49 What? Take the whole Torah, all of it; fulfill the whole Torah, all of it; do what is written, and you will reach the level of a holy man. He did not let you think it was something lofty, exalted and hidden — no, no, no, no. He was simple. The Baba Sali was like that too. He knew Even HaEzer forwards and backwards. They would ask him, and he answered on the spot. Just like that, without a sefer. And he had a small sefer that he used to learn from, on Even HaEzer.

38:17 I forgot what it is called. It is a small sefer. Kinyan Peiros. The sefer Kinyan Peiros. And it was an old sefer. He would sit and sometimes say — when there were derushim, a derush on the Torah, at Birkas HaMazon — saying divrei Torah — he would say pearls — and it was impossible to write them down. Once we went out, I and Rabbi Shlomo Dayan; we tried to write up a talk.

38:42 And I know Arabic... but it is not the Arabic of the Moroccans. We tried afterwards... I managed to catch one word out of two, and I understood... we wrote and wrote and wrote — we did not manage to understand. And it was something wonderful to hear him. Yes — there are no words. But there was a bottle of arak there? — No, that is something else. That — that is not personal.

39:10 That is to say, the toil — what can no longer be passed on — that is truly personal. It is a power of perseverance, a power of... And he told about — he told about his uncle, about the uncle. Who was it who was telling this? The Baba Sali. The Baba Sali — about his uncle. Baba Aharon. That is Rabbi Aharon Abuchatzeira? — Yes.

39:35 There was Rabbi Aharon; there was Rabbi Yitzchak — the earlier Baba Haki, the son of Rabbi Yaakov. His father's brother. And he — and he — that one — Baba Haki — he was named Yitzchak after him. Right. And then — he was a little boy, and he would call him — little, five years old... — That is Rabbi Yitzchak, the son of Rabbi Yaakov, the uncle of Baba Haki. — Yes. — He was named after...

40:04 the later Baba Haki. The later one was named after his uncle. Yes. And he was murdered when he went to collect the tzedakah. And he would call him; he would bring him arak like this, a few glasses. He would come and begin to speak, and out of his mouth would come secrets of secrets. That is not why he was named after him... He told me — the Baba Sali — and said to me that this is how he drank, until he became accustomed to it; he got used to it, and it was impossible to stop him. One day, Rabbi Masoud, the father of the Baba Sali, and his brother, Rabbi Aharon, put him into one of the corners of the courtyard, into one of those little rooms, in a room — and he says, in the room —

40:48 it had a tiny little opening like this — and they locked him in. He said to them, "You have closed it down below; can you close it up above?" And there, in that little niche, there was an air shaft like this, where they would usually put the provisions; he heard a woman saying that if her mahia comes out good, she will bring so many and so many bottles to Baba Haki. He shouted from back there, "I'm here!" And what did they do?

41:13 They set up a wooden plank like this... and they rolled — rolled bottles down it; they came at night and brought them to him. But in the end he stopped. When did he stop? There was once a hilula of Lag BaOmer — of Rabbi Shimon — during the seder of learning, and he fell asleep. At one in the morning he got up — he was pained, so pained — and that was the remedy — that he would stop.

41:41 He would drink no more. So once I asked him, afterwards — why he drinks. He did not answer me. I thought he had not heard. After two or three minutes — I was still there by him — he says to me, "All my days I grew up among the bottles, and I have found nothing better for the body than drinking." He would drink — in the morning a bottle; he would drink a bottle of mahia, that sharp one, that one — a bottle in the morning and a bottle at midday.

42:19 And he says — he could not bear complaints and talk about it — "All my days I grew up among the bottles, and I have found nothing better for the body than drinking." Beautiful. Many people will adopt that. I did not expect him to tell me. I was sure he had not heard, so I said, "Let it pass" — he did not answer, did not answer. Now all of you... everyone will say, "Please."

42:46 No — you, in any case. I used to pay attention, too — not only to the rabbis, but also to the simple Jews, the plain folk. I would go and watch — me and my brother. We'd go to the market every Friday and stand there in the market, watching the people on their way home. We saw many rabbis there, ones we didn't even know — the rabbis of Porat Yosef were there, there were... The truth is, the rabbis — the rabbinate — were still men of noble bearing, the Iraqi students of Porat Yosef, disciples of the Ben Ish Chai, and I would look at them — a different style altogether.

43:24 Not the Iraqis of Ramat Gan. No — these were something else; these were real Torah scholars. A different style. Men of noble bearing, yes. — Yes; coming with two pairs of tefillin in the morning. The simple folk, too. What greatness — no lashon hara in their mouths, the wise men of old. — No, no, they wouldn't even notice people talking. People would be speaking lashon hara, and he'd hear it and just go on his way. — No, no.

43:49 He wouldn't hurt him, and wouldn't say a word to him. No — those were a different kind of people. A world — a different world. Please — make the blessing. Make the blessing — all right. "Blessed are You, Hashem our G-d, King of the universe, by Whose word all things came to be." I, too, from childhood, had a great love for rabbis. Every time I saw rabbis walking in the street, I would run after them, sit down by some wall and enjoy watching how they walked.

44:27 I was a child. — You'd enjoy my album — it's an album of pictures of Torah scholars. I had an album like that, too — all the pictures of the rabbis. I had an album. I bought it in a store and put the pictures in. Back then they used to hand out pictures of the rabbis and all sorts of things. And I... I've had these collections for a great many years. I gathered them from childhood. I would sit and look. I had a picture of Rav Yaakov Ades. And rabbis I didn't know, too — whatever I saw, I collected.

44:57 I had a picture of the Steipler. It's in our library. I still have it — the one with the wagon, where he's pulling the wagon... with the kerosene! Yes, right, I have that one. I don't know where it is... I have that one, where the Steipler is pulling it. And the one of the Steipler laying the s'chach for Sukkos. Ah, no, that one I don't have. — Yes, they published that one, too. But that one was rare — the Steipler. I used to go to him as well, but I would just go in, kiss his hand and leave.

45:22 I had no questions, either — I had nothing to ask. With his son, Rav Chaim Kanievsky, I'd still somehow get to speak, and with our teacher Rav Shteinman, too. No — it didn't matter to me who the rabbis were; it made no, no difference to me. Did you know Rabbi Yichye Omisi? Yes, of course. I even heard him officiating at weddings. A mohel — he was a mohel. Yes. His son — he had a son who was a mohel in his place, he followed in his path.

45:48 That was still in his lifetime. But I remember him — he was thin. He would perform the kiddushin, he'd recite it... — And Mori Yichye Basis? Mori Yichye Basis — yes, I used to go to Rosh HaAyin. He was the father of Rav Azaryah. Yes — he was a neighborhood rabbi where I lived. And I'd go to him, and with him I'd go to his father. I'd go to his father, and to all sorts of other rabbis who were there, Mori... — Abba Tzalach.

46:15 Yes, I'd go to the rabbis — to all sorts, and to rabbis, too. Mori Machpud Najjar. Mori Machpud Najjar — and I would go on my own. He was a friend of Mori Yichye Basis. Yes, yes, but I didn't know him. — Mori Chaim Sinwani — now that was something mighty, don't ask. Mori Chaim Sinwani — I used to go up to his home. At the funeral... Mori Chaim Sinwani — I was seventeen — Mori Chaim Sinwani came to the funeral of Rav Najjar.

46:40 Yes, I was there, I was there — and Mori Chaim Sinwani eulogized Mori Machpud. I was seventeen. Mori Chaim Sinwani usually kept very much to himself. He was there, he gave a eulogy — I heard him. But what about books, for example — for example, books — did you hear that he wrote notes on all his books? — Who? Mori Chaim Sinwani. I saw his whole set. Where he used to sit — he had a set there.

47:06 Afterward they packed all of it into cartons. But I — no, I wouldn't open them without permission. So no, I don't know what's there. I've seen many rabbis who have all kinds of writing on the title page of the book. But now... — What ornaments on the books — he would decorate them. — He would bind them. Yes, he bound them. He would make his own ink. He wouldn't write with a pen. Right. He had a wooden stool — a tree trunk rising from the ground, like this — and he wrote on it, and it had a hollow dug out, like this. — I have manuscripts of his.

47:36 I have manuscripts of his, too, but the one who publishes — the grandson, Gideon, he did that — he gives them only to certain people. Itamar Cohen brought out "Arzei Levanon," and Yeshua Salem is bringing out "Mekom Mikdash," together with Rav David Yehudayoff — "Mekom Mikdash" and "Ateres Tiferes." And there are the kavanos of the shofar blasts — we have it as a small book — and "Zohar HaRakia." — I have his Tikkun HaKlali.

48:07 "Zohar HaRakia" — he brought out two volumes, and now they're bringing out something more, "Toras Chacham." — "Toras Chacham." — That's really selections taken from them. But he has some four or five books. Yes. And it's small pages like these — all the discourses. He left a great many. — Yes, he would sit with thread, like this, his head deep in thought, he'd cut, punch the holes, sew them, and bind, and he did all of this — all of it.

48:37 All of it at home. They came out — books came out. Yes, they brought out several books. But I don't... Only "Mekom Mikdash," "Ateres Tiferes" and "Arzei Levanon" are well known. They say they want to... there are some ten books of his. — What? — Yes, but the well-known ones... Because now we've started on "Mekom Mikdash." — Yes. — Yes, more... now they aren't bringing it out. I don't know. They say they want to bring out a new edition — I don't know.

49:04 Who's in charge there, in the end... Yeshua. Yeshua, yes — but as for him bringing out all the books, he didn't give him permission to publish. It's astounding — "Mekom Mikdash" is astounding. When you see the Kabbalah inside it, it's astounding. Yes, "Ateres Tiferes," too. — Yes, so much Kabbalah. He brings things there — unbelievable that such a man lived in our generation. I used to go to him, and I wouldn't say a word.

49:29 Rav Yosef Shlomo Dayan, son of Jamila. Yes. You knew him? — Of course. He used to come up to the yeshiva, too. We learned... — And he would immerse with his clothes on. I don't know. He was... with the visored cap. No — with a cap like the soldiers', black, like this. — Yes, yes, yes — the holy Rav. Yes, he lived in his mother's house. We were learning in the yeshiva — Jamila — his mother, Jamila. on the street, on Rashi Street, close to Machaneh Yehudah.

49:54 And that's where his house was. Facing the Beis El synagogue. I'd see him coming out of there, going in there, but I never approached him. I was fifteen, sixteen. I used to go to the Rav — to the Mori — and I would see him at Rabbi Yosef Waltuch's. And at Rabbi Yosef Waltuch's I recognized him, and I knew who he was. Rabbi Yosef Waltuch — he would come to the Achvah neighborhood and sit in the shtiebel. — You were together the whole time?

50:20 He would go... he'd go to Baba Meir, too. Rabbi Yosef Shlomo Dayan, son of Jamila — this tzaddik was holy. He never married, and he lived with his mother. Such things... that I don't know. Afterward they brought out the book about him. Everything he uncovered in Chevron — all those things. What he uncovered in Chevron... — I used to see him dressed in khaki clothes, army ones. — Yes, right. Even his coat was khaki.

50:45 He sewed them himself. He had his robes hanging in the closet. — You've seen his picture? — Khaki, always — because the rabbis of Jerusalem did not wear black. So the cheapest cloth was the soldiers' cloth. Then the army came and forbade wearing khaki, because the terrorists were disguising themselves and so on, so he wore white.

51:10 But he — khaki. The rabbis of Porat Yosef, too; Rav Ovadia, too — his coat was khaki. All the Porat Yosef students of those days went about in khaki — Rav Tzadka, too. Later Rav Tzadka wore brown, like the Iraqis, and Rav Yosef, too, went about in a galabiya. Right — there's a picture of Rav Tzadka dressed in khaki. — Yes, he always — that's how he was. And his hat was gray, Rav Ben Tzion Abba Shaul's, too. — Rav Tzadka's suit was gray as well.

51:39 Yes — no, it was gray. I was at his home; he was in gray. — No, at first it was brown — a sort of reddish brown. A short jacket — he wore a short jacket. Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul, too. He went about in a brown hat — a brown hat, Chacham Ben Tzion — only he'd put it on however it happened to land. Like this, like that — it didn't matter. He'd walk down the street like that, and whoever met him in the street and asked him a question — he'd take hold of him, sit down and explain it to him.

52:05 I remember once, one Friday, he's sitting — I don't know what the man had asked him — sitting and explaining to him, and he sees that the man is looking here, looking there, not understanding. What did he do with him? I see there's a photo shop there — a shop where, you know, there are display windows on both sides and the door is set back inside. So he took him in there, and the door opened, and he says to the shopkeeper, "Pardon, pardon."

52:32 He sits explaining it to him, and says, "Now do you understand?" "Fine — but why did you do that to me?" He told him, "I'm talking to you and you're looking here and there — so I brought you inside." In the yeshiva, when he passed between the benches, there was fear. In the yeshiva — the fear. And I remember, I used to go every time... — In that story, he's talking to him and can't tell whether he understood or not? He's looking around — so he takes hold of him and puts him where he can't look around, and starts again. I didn't understand — I thought he was about to hit him.

52:59 But I would go every time and stand — at midday, at one in the afternoon I'd go and stand at Porat Yosef, across from Porat Yosef, where there were small garbage bins, because the whole street would put them out there, and the truck would come and take them. That's where I stood. And I'd watch how they brought Rav Ezra Attia down from the house — from the yeshiva, to his home. And one day I saw many people coming out, so I went in.

53:27 I went in, I'm going up the stairs, going up the stairs, this way and that, up to the beis midrash. And I see — he's coming down, and Chacham Ben Tzion came and met him there, and began asking him right there. He said something like — "that is the gain" — something like that. And he raised a difficulty and left him with the question — I don't know what — "look into it."

53:53 So I went down, and people were going down. In short, I see he came down, and there, on the right side, there was also a restaurant, a place to eat. Later they rented it out to Gur. But there was a restaurant there. And he comes out carrying an umbrella — not for rain; against the sun — like this, and David Cohen holding him by the arm, like this, and he walks slowly — he was always sickly — Chacham Ezra Attia.

54:27 They're talking — such-and-such a page, side a, in Rashi — Torah scholars, and I'm watching — what people, what Torah! Suddenly he remembers something. And — he started running toward the restaurant, and then he starts walking. Like this — now, the way he walked, he'd walk like so. Like so. He got there, Chacham Ben Tzion saw him going outside. He went out and — I don't know — ran like a young yeshiva boy, and gave him the answer.

54:55 After he finished, he went on home. Ah. Ah. That I remember. Now, he would arrive home — you see? — lie down on the bed, take the hat off his head — he had a hat like this, with the tarbush — and rest a little more. That's simply how he received people. A person would come and ask a question, and he'd say, "Bring the hat." My father once went in there — "Bring the hat," "bring the Shulchan Aruch."

55:26 He would never rule on a halachah without a book. "Read — read this halachah. You see? That's how it has to be. You see — it's written." That's how he was. Rabbi Ezra Attia — my father said: whoever wants to see an angel of G-d should look at his face. Who else was there? Chacham Salman Chugi.

55:54 He was something remarkable. He walked with a cane. From Iraq? He was... yes, from Iraq. An Iraqi. An Iraqi. He lived at Davidka Square. And they would come to be examined. He examined students. He had a one-room apartment. He was a member of the Great Beis Din — and he had a one-room apartment. And there was a sort of alcove there, where... on the bed... and he'd be sitting at a wooden table, the old kind, a student sits, and he asks him halachah after halachah.

56:28 He sits, and says to him, "Ah, there's a great deal — you can't overlook it." That sort of style. And afterward he would give a shiur, and he spoke softly. He spoke softly, for whoever was near him — only the one closest to him could hear. His humility — even to a child, he would bend down, and he would escort a person all the way to the road — going out of the house, escorting him as far as the monument that stands there today, Davidka Square — he'd go out there, too, as far as the monument, something like a hundred meters, escorting the guest — be it a student, no matter, a child, no matter — he would escort him, whoever it was.

57:26 Mori Giat. Who? Giat. Which Giat? He was in Rosh HaAyin. Mori... Giat. Giat, in Rosh HaAyin? The one you go to every time — to his grave, over there. Ah, Mori Giat — Nissim. Mori Giat. — Yes, there's Giat, Yosef Giat — there were several rabbis. There used to be kabbalists. The last of the kabbalists was Mori Ya'ish Giat.

57:54 Mori Ya'ish. The last one before that was Rabbi Yichye ben Shalom HaKohen, author of "Chayei Shalom," there was Mori Maroni, Mori... and after that it dwindled — there were no more. People who read Zohar — that's not a kabbalist. There was also... He, too, was certainly considered a kabbalist. There are letters of his that now... — Rav Levi Chamdi?

58:22 That, again — those were... two hundred and fifty years ago. Yes, those were the earlier ones — the last of them. — Did you hear from people who spoke of him? Two who came up to the Land. — Who saw him? — No. He would tell about him. Mori Levi Chamdi. Mori Levi Chamdi — but that was already in Jerusalem, perhaps. — He saw from one end of the world to the other. But perhaps in Jerusalem. He wrote out the "Moharan" of Rabbi Nachman in his own hand.

58:46 Mori Levi Chamdi of Jerusalem — he writes, "I, the gabbai." He would sign: "I, the gabbai." He was the gabbai in the synagogue, so he writes, "I, the gabbai." They were already in Jerusalem, but in the same generation as Mori Levi Chamdi there was Rabbi Yichye ben Shalom HaKohen. He lived a hundred and eight years — Rabbi Yichye ben Shalom HaKohen. And he was the scribe of the gittin for the beis din of Sana'a. And afterward he was scribe and dayan in the beis din of Mori al-Qara, and in the days of Mori al-Qara he was a dayan.

59:15 And when everyone fled, in the year 5618, because of the decrees, when the Imam killed Shalom Alsheikh, they fled — and he stayed. Rav Suleiman al-Qara, the head of the beis din, fled to Qaryat al-Qabil, Rav Yichye and another rav also fled, to another place — he did not flee. And people would laugh at him and say that he believes the Mashiach is about to come, and they'd laugh at him — and he stayed there.

59:42 He lived a hundred years. He was born in the year... when there was snow in Sana'a. That was the year he was born, and he lived on, and passed away — he left the beis din; he could no longer manage. He was... — Was the Rav in Yemen? Me? No — of course not. — Does the Rav know that Yemen has the most beautiful sea in the world? No. You didn't know that? — No. The sea? — The most beautiful in the world. There's a shore and a sea there — an area that's called one of the wonders of the world — the most beautiful in the world.

1:00:12 First place in the world. — I know that in Ad... — Yemen. Not for nothing was the king there once, four hundred years ago — in the days of Rabbi Shalom Shabazi? In Taiz, perhaps? — It was... in Taiz — no — in Taiz, where Rabbi Shalom Shabazi is. The summer palace. Yes, but I know that in Yemen there's a place that is one of the wonders of the world — I don't know if that's even it. — Rav Ben Tzion Koenka was in Yemen, and he published a certain book in which it's written that he went — the author writes that he went to Aden, and it's called Aden — Eden — because the Garden of Eden is there. And below that he wrote — Rav Ben Tzion Koenka, who printed the book — he wrote: "And I, for my sins, went there, and found the opening of Gehinnom."

1:00:55 But it was hot — terrible heat in Aden. Have you heard of the Red Book? No. Mount Patience — you haven't heard of it? No. There's a great mountain there, and inside that mountain there was a red book. A book eight hundred, nine hundred years old, wrapped in red cloths. A Torah scroll? In Yemen, yes.

1:01:20 I've seen several early Torah scrolls, and they had the curled and the crooked letters, which you don't find just anywhere. In particular, the ones most exacting about the writing were in Yemen. And one of them I saw. — I want to tell of one that was taken to Ashkenaz; it's in Europe. Apparently. But about that I don't know. — You've heard of the curled letters in a Torah scroll. — There are; the inverted nuns. That, yes — but I've seen Torah scrolls like that, old ones.

1:01:47 There's a red one in Rosh HaAyin, and there's one in another place — a red one. — The red one, yes. And there's another Torah scroll, there's a Torah scroll like that, and on it there are cloths — kerchiefs — perhaps as high as the scroll itself.

1:02:14 Everyone who comes buys kerchiefs. It's full of them. — How do you say "patience" in Arabic? Could it be "al-Sabr," or something like that?

1:02:51 There was a town there, at a great mountain like this — an old Yemenite man told me this. There was a great mountain in the town, and at the top of the mountain they had a cave, and that's where this red book was. And people used to go up there, too... — A mountain with a cave there — that can only be in the Shar'ab district. That area. There were lions there, too; there were wild animals. In general, all over Yemen there were monkeys, there were animals — it was dangerous. Snakes, too — snakes where each snake has a head the size of the palm of a hand, and it rears up like this, looks, like this — and just like that it gets there. It gets there fast: tip-tip-tip-tip, and it's there.

1:03:32 By the way — Saadia — what, Ben-Or? Yes, but that's where... Chaim Sinwani was there. Yes. He went to learn... Jabal Sabr, Rav. What? — Jabal Sabr. That's in Shar'ab. That's in Shar'ab. If there was... — Jabal Sabr? Yes. Jabal Sabr. The Tzabari family — Tzabar, Tzabari — all of them came from Mount Sabr there. I don't know. That's how I heard it from the Mori, may he rest in peace, who told it to me.

1:03:58 So there, on that mountain, there are no inhabitants. There are no inhabitants there. There's Tzabari, and there's Saba... Saba... who came from that same area — that's the mountain of the Tzabaris. There's Subeiri, there's Zubeiri, there are all kinds — but this mountain is a desolate mountain with lions on it. Who would live there? Only tzaddikim. Mori Saadia was there, living in a small house, and Mori Chaim Sinwani went up to him to learn with him.

1:04:27 And he would go with him to the mikveh, and he'd see a lion — he was a youth, and he'd see a lion walking behind them — but he relied on Mori Saadia. After he went back — Mori Chaim told me this — he went back, together with him, and he said to him, "Oh, I forgot my towel — the one for the mikveh."

1:04:53 He said, "You know what? I'll go — come what may." He went — and the lion went after him. He came back, and the lion came back with him. So he understood that this was Hashgachah from Heaven. Mori Chaim Sinwani? — Yes. Later, when he was meant to become the rav and av beis din of the place, they came, and people shouted until he heard and came down.

1:05:19 And then there was no choice — he had to teach. And he was the av beis din, and he worked very hard. And he had a dispute with them over a certain agunah. They said there were signs that the man had died — he goes and... it's printed in the book of responsa that came out. And they said he would not return. He said he would return. They said he would return. Whose? — Mori Chaim's. Mori Chaim's? — Siman 1. Even HaEzer, siman 1.

1:05:45 But he told it to me himself, and it's an awesome story. — Even HaEzer, in the responsa. Yes — siman 1. Now, he told it to me when the book had not yet come out. And he said that the man would return. And they said that he would not return — the sages of Sana'a. In the end he returned. He writes out that whole responsum there, in siman 1. Now, I've already seen it — siman 17 in Even HaEzer — siman 1 in Even HaEzer — well, that's the Shulchan Aruch, yes — but in his responsa, the first responsum, in the responsa of his book. — Yes. They argued with him and said that the man had died and she was permitted, "But no — he will return."

1:06:22 And he returned. — Wow, wow, wow, wow. The power of emunah! He sat — two years, on Gemara alone — Rav Saadia Ben-Or and Mori Chaim — all of these were students of the same Mori. No, not at the same time. And he — Rav Saadia — let him stay close at his side. He became the son-in-law of the Rav from Jerusalem... There's a picture of him.

1:06:50 I saw him. He came — he came to Rav Messas; I saw him. And the Rav said to me... Does the Rav know... whether the date of Rabbi Shalom Shabazi's passing is really the tenth, as they say? There was one who researched this — Rav Avigad Sharabi. Very nice. — He wrote it up according to his own reckoning; and the booklet — part of it was written out here.

1:07:20 At the end there's the book "Soles Minchah." So he sent it to Rav Kapach, and he said that by the dates and so on, it must be that he passed away on the tenth. — The tenth of Shevat? Yes. Wow. So Rav Kapach sent him a reply; he told him, "I read your research. These are nothing but words of prophecy, and fortunate is he who merited this."

1:07:49 And mind you, Rav Kapach was not one to be easily impressed. With Rav Yichye ben Shalom HaKohen, too — even though in those days they did write dates on a grave marker, on his they didn't write these dates — and you'll see that the opinions are divided. One — Rav Amram Korach — writes that he passed away in, I don't know, such-and-such a month, and Dr. Gavra found a document that he wrote eight years after that.

1:08:15 So where does that leave us? On his grave marker it isn't written. Does the Rav know — know the siddur of our forefathers? Yes. — The siddur? — Yes. As they say there at the opening: "G-d, my G-d — You are the Master and I am the servant; who will have mercy on a servant but his master? You are the King and I am the servant..."

1:08:39 Who composed it? We don't know who composed it. There are many things we don't know who composed. But it's a piyyut. — And there's the one about the ministering angels — who composed it? — Which piyyut? — Who composed the one about the angels? — It's with Sefiras HaOmer... Once Rav Sofer told me — Rav Yaakov Sofer — that it seems to be in a certain book, "Chesed L'Avraham" — I searched and didn't find it. Now I've found it — Rav Yehoyada Gadasi, one of ours, wrote there the name of an author, but I don't know — someone...

1:09:06 There are tzaddikim whose song endures and whose name isn't known. — Yes, because he also marked it only with an acrostic of alef, beis, gimmel, daled — so there's no way to know at all. Yes, but it's awesome. It's a moving piyyut. — These are powerful songs. Yes, that's the most powerful. That one — that, that. Awesome foundations. Yes, that one — yes. But who composed it? There are rabbis who wrote books, and you know who the author is, but the books are lofty things.

1:09:34 And there's the opposite: their name isn't known, yet their books are known. In Yemen they greatly embraced the "Menoras HaMaor" of Rabbi Yitzchak Abuhav. I saw a "Menoras HaMaor" — I saw a "Menoras HaMaor" in which it's written that it was composed by Rabbi Yitzchak Abuhav, "may the Merciful One protect him" — still in his own lifetime. Really? — Yes, I saw it. Where did you see it? — In Jerusalem, at a certain person's home.

1:10:03 I saw it; I opened it. It truly has the standing of Gemara. Whoever completes it — it's the siyum of a tractate. It's Gemara in every respect. — We have a book — the book of books, the book of Rabbi Yitzchak Abuhav. There's no book like it. — When we were children — It's all "lamps" and "principles": Principle 1, the introduction to Lamp 1, in Lamp 2, 3, Principle 7. It's built like the branches of the Menorah. It's a book you can't understand by just quoting chapters; you have to understand that every lamp is tied to an introduction, to a section.

1:10:33 Yes. Otherwise it's very complicated. — To this day they read it in the synagogue every Shabbos. — But that's just reading it, yes. When we were children, on Chol HaMoed they would sell a chapter each day, and children would read the whole chapter. Not like today — today they read a passage. All through the festival they read it in the synagogue. It's a segulah for healing. There, too, one thing is said that isn't said anywhere else: one who writes down words of Torah — what, what, what is his reward?

1:11:02 It's written there that he is counted among those who bring the many to righteousness. And that isn't in the Gemara, and it isn't in the Rishonim — only there is it written. One who writes down words of Torah is counted among those who bring the many to righteousness. That's written there. But I love its language, too. One could go on writing and writing... It's written about all the books that get printed that it is counted as... There was a man in Rosh HaAyin — when he was at eulogies, and there were...

1:11:27 he would recite the "Menoras HaMaor" by heart. They called him Mori Nissim — Mori Nissim Cohen. He would give a eulogy and recite whole passages, just like that, by heart. I remember that from back at home. Ah, apparently he would read the... Kamtza and Bar Kamtza — all of that he'd recite by heart.

1:11:54 Wow. — Mori Yichye, by the way — the one we had behind the grocery store — the one who came after Mori Yehuda... Was he a descendant of the holy Alsheich? — No, no. But they — but they — Yes, he read from it — recited it by heart. His grandfather was Rabbi Shalom HaLevi Alsheikh, and his great-grandfather was given that name, but he wasn't — that's how it became "Alsheikh." They aren't Alsheikh; they're HaLevi.

1:12:20 They're the HaLevi family. — Rabbi Yitzchak HaLevi, the Rav of Yemen — is he related to him? No, no. Those are Levi'im, too — three, three families of Levi'im. There's the house of Yitzchak — they're Levi'im, they're the Sasson HaLevi family, and the Alsheikh, too, are the Sasson HaLevi family, and Machpud as well — Machpud are also the Sasson HaLevi family, the one who composed that work.

1:12:46 And Rav Alsheikh would sit and recite the "Menoras HaMaor" by heart, on Shabbos. Sometimes he would say it... He recited the "Menoras HaMaor"? — Of course he did. I remember him — I was a child, and I had to hear him, because I loved listening to him. When he began to read, the whole synagogue — the women's section, too — fell silent, because they understood him. He would begin: "So you learn: one who shames his fellow — Scripture counts it against him as though..."

1:13:19 Like that. "My son..." — and he sits like this, the book open before him — and you see that he's looking at the people; he isn't looking at the book. But they had told him to read. And I saw him — not only that, but the Shulchan Aruch with "Shtilei Zeisim," too. He would stand... — Oh, with the "Shtilei Zeisim"? — Yes, he would recite it, and he'd say the "Shtilei Zeisim," and when they asked him a question, he'd say, "Ah, well, my dear fellow — maybe it's this way, maybe..."

1:13:44 But he would recite it. The "Shtilei Zeisim," too? — Both Maran and the "Shtilei Zeisim." Wow, the "Shtilei Zeisim," too. — And he goes back over it: they read the halachah, and then he goes back over it. He goes over it and explains it, without looking at the book. — By heart. — Yes. That was Rav Alsheikh. Chaim Kessar, too. — Chaim Kessar too, they said. — Rabbi Chaim was diligent — never away from the book. Such diligence. He was — he also never lay down in a bed.

1:14:12 He would sit on the bed — that's how he sat — he'd wake up, and now — But when we were — in the beis din, too, he would be learning the Talmud Yerushalmi. We'd be writing gittin; he was a witness, and he would sign only "Chaim ben Shmuel, witness." And more than that we didn't know — he didn't want it. — He learned the Talmud Yerushalmi, too? — Yes, he would read the Talmud Yerushalmi.

1:14:39 Who, he? — Mori Chaim. In the beis din he learned Yerushalmi; at home he learned Bavli and Rambam. And that — that was his way, always. Always, day and night. A world of its own. Oh my, oh my. And not only that — we, some five of us, used to learn with Mori Chaim Kessar; we'd go to Mori Chaim Kessar every Tuesday. Yes. He — we would be reading to him, and he had it all by heart.

1:15:04 No, no — at his home. That was when he was old. — Do you have rare pictures of anyone? Maybe. I stopped looking long ago. — The picture of Rabbi Shalom Sharabi here is a fake, right? — Yes, nonsense. The one of Rabbi Shalom Sharabi. They took it from some museum. I don't know. I don't know. I have a rare picture that's attributed to the Rashash. A drawing. There's nothing like it; I haven't seen it anywhere. — Look, once I used to see great men; I would...

1:15:35 Then a period went by; after they were gone, it thinned out — Mori Chaim Kessar, that's just... — Did you know Mori Shmuel Amrani? — Yes, of course. Why, his brother, Yehuda Chargiyah, is my wife's grandfather. — Mori Shmuel Amrani — how old was he when he passed away? — He passed away at ninety-something. — Something like that, yes. Now, his brother Yehuda Chargiyah is my wife's grandfather, and they had another one — ...so he was a hundred and two. — Perhaps a bit more. — I used to daven with him on Shabbos. — A hundred and three. — Mori Amrani's wife and my grandmother used to make the pitas for Pesach. — Matzos. — Now, Shmuel, he also had another... he came up with his father.

1:16:13 Now, they were three brothers: Menachem Chargiyah in Moshav Nocham, Yehuda Chargiyah, my wife's grandfather, in Kiryat Ono, and Shmuel al-Chargi in Rosh HaAyin. He was a grocer. Yes. And he would sit and learn with Mori Yichye ben Salem Nahari. He would see him — he told me his face shone like the sun. He'd say, "Sometimes I couldn't look at his face, because of the light."

1:16:41 He and Suleiman Nahari. They didn't go in to learn from him — they went to gaze at him. He would sit like this, not speaking with anyone. He was holy of holies. There's one work of his — I have only part of it, a part of it, close to some twenty-five pages, and I copied more, by hand, from the original. And he was a master of practical Kabbalah.

1:17:08 He passed away at a hundred and six. Yes. They tell that at ninety — and he lived to a hundred and six — at ninety he married a woman, and afterward divorced her — with sorrow, sorrowing as he divorced her; and from her he had sons. And he was the scribe there, and afterward he wanted to go up early to the Land, but he had to write the Torah scroll — he was writing a Torah scroll for the Habshush family.

1:17:42 He told them he'd finish it in the Land; they told him, "No, no — finish it now." That's why he was delayed. That's how it was — and he came up to the Land. — He came up to the Land? — Of course; he passed away in Rosh HaAyin, and there's... Salem, And one day — it was a Friday — he washed, laid out his clothes, put them on the table, called his daughter and said to her, "Know this: twelve o'clock — that is the moment I go.

1:18:11 No noise, no weeping, nothing. If you delay past twelve, it will cost dearly. I'm telling you." He passed away swiftly; the chevra kadisha came, and they went to the cemetery. The sun — there had been rain. He had said to his daughter, "I'm leaving." She said, "Don't go, don't go." He told her, "At twelve, I'm not here." So she understood that this was the end. He departed; the sun came out; they took him and buried him — and the rain came back.

1:18:41 But all the... all the... that... My grandfather, Rabbi Shlomo, learned with Mori Yichye Basis. Ah, yes. He was also a mechutan of the Sadeh — Rabbi Chaim Shaul HaKohen. Ah, yes? He married off his son — that's my uncle — to a granddaughter of Rabbi Chaim Shaul HaKohen — through his son — Rabbi Chaim Shaul's, the Sadeh. The truth is, about him I don't know much, other than that he was here, among the rabbis of Jerusalem.

1:19:07 Rosh yeshiva of Beis El. — Yes. But Mori Yichye Basis learned together with my grandfather — they had a bell to ring from one to the other. My grandfather, Rabbi Shlomo, was the son of Rabbi Shalom, who passed away at the age of thirty-seven. He went up to the Land of Israel; his father was called Rabbi Ya'ish. It's written about him there, in "Siach Sifsoseinu." Ah, yes. — He came to the Land — his father was upset with him; he had told him not to go up. He went up to the Land and he passed away — passed away on the way; he isn't buried here.

1:19:34 Rabbi Shalom was his name. Yes. Ah — I once used to take an interest in the histories of rabbis who passed on in the last generation. It simply gives me pleasure. — Mori Yichye Basis himself — I knew him; I used to go to... I'd sit in his home. My grandfather was about to die; he worked a miracle for him — he said that he would live. The doctors said so; they wrote him a death certificate — he's about to die, he has a few hours left; he was in his final throes.

1:20:02 They went to pray — Rabbi Chai and Rabbi Yichye Basis; they said, "Open the ark," they prayed, said Tehillim; my grandmother said Tehillim. He got up — after that he made a thanksgiving meal, and lived on for another forty-some years. — I used to go with Azaryah to his father's. On every mezuzah he had — he had a covering made from the remnants of a tallis, on every mezuzah. Really? Why? What was he doing?

1:20:28 Holiness to holiness. Holiness — a covering from a tallis, over the mezuzah. A piece of an old tallis. — Mori Yichye Basis, right? — Yes. — Instead of putting it into genizah, apparently. I don't know. I didn't understand, I didn't understand. Every mezuzah, every mezuzah case — that's what he did? What did he do? A mezuzah case? Like this? — Give me a piece... you see the red and black stripes? — Oh, with that — but is it the corner? No, no, no — not the corner. Can you picture it?

1:20:52 Yes — can you picture it? The cloth, the cloth. — What, cut a small piece of it and cover with it? — Yes, it's covered — you see, like this, over the... It's like a covering — a second covering. — Maybe it's on account of "so that your days may be multiplied" — "so that your days may be multiplied." Maybe two coverings? That's what I used to see — no, I also never asked. There are places where I wouldn't dare ask. — Length of days — the tzitzis, perhaps — and against harm as well. — I remember the first time I went to see Mori Chaim Sinwani.

1:21:18 You see, we had gone to the Tzaddik of Ra'anana. We said — and he was ill. His wife told Yeshua Salem that he would receive us for a moment. He came in, ill, and they told him — they spoke with him about a certain person who was ill in Jerusalem. So he said, "With Hashem's help, it will be such-and-such" — I don't know what he said — and she asked for 200 shekels.

1:21:46 We went out — 200 lirot — we went out and got into the car. So then one of the fellows said, "Look at that — it's all about our money. Thieves." We went on from there — and where did we go? To Mori Chaim. Mori Chaim was holding a bottle of arak in his hand, putting on an act, like this. Yeshua says to him, "No, no — honored Rav, honored Rav, we've come about someone who is ill." "Honored Rav, honored Rav" — he looked, like this, put down the bottle of arak: "What do you want?"

1:22:15 We told him, "There's a sick man" — and he told us, word for word, everything the Tzaddik of Ra'anana had said. The very same thing. Afterward we got to Jerusalem, and the next day they said the Tzaddik of Ra'anana was displeased. And the fellow who had been with us — he was sorry that he had let slip words that were out of place.

1:22:42 In short, I don't know what Yeshua arranged for him in the end — that he should go to Mori Chaim, I don't know what. But the very same words. Now, a few days later something happened to us at Baba Sali's. I went to Netivot, and the Rabbanit said to me — Rabbi Baruch's mother, the Rabbanit... Miriam — she said to me, "I've heard so much from you about Mori Chaim." I told her, "Yes."

1:23:07 She said, "Take me." I told her, "On Sunday." She said, "Ah?" It was settled. I told her, "All right." That same evening I was sitting... — Miriam? — Miriam — Mari, yes. Miriam, the mother of Rabbi Baruch. — They called her Mari, too, no? — Yes. They don't have that name. Miriam — I don't know. They called her Mari, yes. The Rav didn't call people by name. The Rav would — he'd give a knock on the table, and she would come. Except for the wife of Rabbi David — Rabbi David, the "Ateres Rosheinu," who was murdered. From Debdou, from Debdou. He wouldn't call her by her name; he would call her "the Kohen's daughter."

1:23:44 She was of the priestly families — young Kohanim. And besides — he traveled to Debdou and brought a Kohen, because there was no Kohen at the prayers. He brought a Kohen, and married his daughter. But that was common, Mori — it was common among the Yemenites not to say the wife's name. No, but Baba Sali... I'm telling you about Baba Sali: he didn't call her by name; he would call her "the Kohen's daughter." Like that — he held her in honor.

1:24:10 Anyway, she told me... and I sat once again with Baba Sali — you know, when it comes to drinking, you cannot say no to Baba Sali. It would be a real affront — even kerosene, you'd drink. I can't say a thing to him. So, in short, we sat and drank — — No, I know. in short, we sat and drank. I remember that we left... I remember we finished two — and after that, the whole way, I don't remember.

1:24:38 The next morning I got up, and my head was seized up; I was looking at people as though through binoculars. I went to Yeshua, he looks at me and says, "Ah, you were at Rabbeinu's house?" I told him, "Yes, I was at Rabbeinu's house." I told him, "Listen, I have a problem. On Sunday — I told the Rabbanit that I would take her to Mori Chaim." He says to me, "Nu, what's the problem?"

1:25:04 "I don't know how to manage it." He told me, "I'll take you." I told him, "Then, on Sunday." "All right." I came on Sunday; he told me, "Sit for a while — let me have a few customers first, and after that I'm yours." Meanwhile he says, "Listen — the Rav is against it; the Rav doesn't want her to go to Mori Chaim." "I know the Rav doesn't want it." So I said to him, "What shall we do?"

1:25:29 "You told her — so you'll take her." We went down to Netivot. I went in through the kitchen. The Rabbanit said, "I'm getting dressed and coming out." With all the people there, we got her out by the... We went in to Baba Sali and said that we'd come in the evening, and then we went out, got into the car and drove to Mori Chaim. There, too, people were standing at Mori Chaim's house; we moved everyone aside and brought her in.

1:25:53 She sat there an hour — an hour. Then she came out saying, "Wow..." — like that, all the way back to Baba Sali. In short, Mori Chaim told her — told her everything: where the money comes from, who takes it, how much they take — everything. And he told her that Rabbi Baruch going to prison was something unavoidable — and she accepted it. And he also told her that her life would end in tragedy — afterward she was killed in a road accident — and she accepted it.

1:26:22 She said, "I have received the World to Come and this world. I am the wife of the Chacham." He truly revealed everything — and we brought her back to Netivot. And indeed, what Mori Chaim said is what came to be: she was killed, and Baruch went in and came out of prison. May the merit of all these holy ones protect us, Rav. — So many things. — So many things. Will the Rav bless us?

1:26:47 I should bless you? Yes — let the Rav bless us. I could stay with the Rav until Mashiach comes. Hashem, blessed be He, will help you. — I want the blessing. All of this — I enjoyed it so much. Blessing and success. Amen. In everything you take up, may you succeed — with joy, length of days and years of life; may everything you ask be fulfilled from Heaven; everything you decree for people — may it be for good, for blessing and for joy, with a glad heart; may you see blessing and success in all your deeds.

1:27:19 Amen. The merit of all the holy ones we have mentioned, Rav — all the blessings and all the good abundance to his honor.